Отправлено: 04.10.23 19:41. Заголовок: Speculative Evolution not related to the Neocene

After reading some articles about the Antropocene and the changes in natural life due to the climate change (such as this one:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11444045/Meet-bizarre-hybrid-animals-soon-roam-Earth-climate-change.html), I thought about doing my own speculative idea for the future of Earth. I saw that the forum have a space for other project ideas, but since it's in Russian, I thought that would be better to leave this space here.
The premise if that the humans became extinct (or left the planet, if following a more sci-fi path) due to catastrophic climate changes, which caused the melting of most of the polar ice capes and the collapse of the agriculture. The planktonic communities in the ocean declined, but not drastically like in the Neocene, allowing some marine mammals to survive. The corals that relied in zooxanthelas went extinct and the ocean level rised ro something similar to this map. Now 35 million years, the species that survived had evolved in new forms, while the sea level is slowly retroceding, signaling the arrival of an Ice Age. The continents changed their positions, with Central America mostly under water, with parts of it being islands. The Horn of Africa separated from the rest of the continent.
Everyone is welcome to help with ideas for the continents and creatures living on them. And even giving the name for this period. I thought that could be a good place to suggest species that weren’t approved to join the Neocene, but that could suit elsewhere.
So far, I thought that some marine survivors could be:
-The last ballen whale, a descendant of the reproduction between blue whales and fin whales. These hybrids only survived because their parental populations were absorbed in one, which the genes of the fin's are dominant over the blue's. Even then, this species suffered a drastic bootle neck effect and sighting it is very uncommon.
-Most cetaceans that still live are descendants of the common dolphin, the most populous species of cetacean. It gave origin to three groups: one replacing the orca, other replacing the beaked whales and other looking like traditional dolphins.
-A descendant of hybrids between dall's porpoise and harbour porpoise living in North Pacific.
-For terrestrial animals, I thought about a descendant of the brown bear with genes of their polar cousin. They are basically analogues to Arctodus in North America and maybe Eurasia.
-Deep water corals are slowly invading the areas of their extinct relatives due to the waters getting cooller due to Ice Age approaching.
Among some things that I thought that can be interesting are:
-Seals and penguins that need ice are extinct without descendants
-The Mediterranean still exist and the melting of the ice had made it swallow the lower parts of the Italian Peninsula and of Northern Africa. The Nile have a great delta.
Those are my thoughts for now. If anyone have ideas to help with it, feel free to share!

 Отправлено: 11.10.23 09:40. Заголовок: JOrnitho Do you can..

JOrnitho

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Do you can see it now? Yesterday my messages weren’t appearing!

Now I see your message!

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smaller forms adapted to hot areas due to the climatic change.

I think Australia should have moist and warm climate and approach close to equator. So it should like South America, but with moonsons.

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I think that hyrax could evolve to partialy replace elephants and rhinoceros. They could evolve astrapotherium and toxodon-like forms that are slowly moving out of Africa, into Europe through the closed Gibraltar strait. Maybe they reach Asia at some point.

Basal hyraxes from family Pliohyracidae already were megafauna species and lived in Asia. However, this lineage died out afrer beginning of ice age. Also, they looked like poorly drawn peccary, not South American megarauna. But i think evolution of rhino-like hyraxes also won't be problem.

 Отправлено: 11.10.23 15:14. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: I th..

лягушка пишет:

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I think Australia should have moist and warm climate and approach close to equator. So it should like South America, but with moonsons.

So maybe there is a species of horse adapted to forests? They could slim and smaller than present horses.

лягушка пишет:

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Basal hyraxes from family Pliohyracidae already were megafauna species and lived in Asia. However, this lineage died out afrer beginning of ice age. Also, they looked like poorly drawn peccary, not South American megarauna. But i think evolution of rhino-like hyraxes also won't be problem.

I think that they could look like basal rhinoceros, without horns, but sill large in size.
I also thought that the saiga could evolve in a bull-like form.
For predators, I thought that seriemas could become terror bird-like, specialized in hunting descendants of the introduced Antilope cervicapra in South America. In Africa and Eurasia, maybe the leopards could continue with a lineage of pantherine predators, ranging from a leopard size to that of a tiger. They are the Panthera with the greatest chance of surviving.

 Отправлено: 12.10.23 09:30. Заголовок: JOrnitho So maybe t..

JOrnitho

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So maybe there is a species of horse adapted to forests? They could slim and smaller than present horses.

Yeah, I think they can. This animals should look like some sort of perissodactylian musk deer, I think.

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I also thought that the saiga could evolve in a bull-like form.

i think that saiga should die out - it's critically endangered species now.

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For predators, I thought that seriemas could become terror bird-like, specialized in hunting descendants of the introduced Antilope cervicapra in South America. In Africa and Eurasia, maybe the leopards could continue with a lineage of pantherine predators, ranging from a leopard size to that of a tiger. They are the Panthera with the greatest chance of surviving.

Yeah, they can. However, it's more likely for sereima to develop dromaeosaur-like claws, not massive beak - it can be more effective against small prey, but not large. Antilopes can be hunted not by neo-bird of terror, but by pumas ore massive descendants of Leopardus species.
I thing leopard can survive and continue lineage of pantherines, but I think that it's more realistic and interesting to wipe it out and give way to other felids. Most of Afro-Eurasia should be occupied by caracals, they can evolve into saber-toothed forms. Descendants of Felis genus, like african wildcat or feral cat descendants, also can evolve into big carnivores. Serval can take niche of cheetah in African savannahs. In both Americas, mountain lion lineage should continue and evolve into dominant macro-carnivores.

 Отправлено: 12.10.23 14:13. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: i th..

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i think that saiga should die out - it's critically endangered species now.

I agree, I thought that they survival in the Neocene was already improbable. I think that in this case, the domestic cattle had more chance of surviving in wild forms. Or it dies out and the goats or antelopes evolve to bull-like forms. By the way, which species of antelope you think that could survive?

лягушка пишет:

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Yeah, they can. However, it's more likely for sereima to develop dromaeosaur-like claws, not massive beak - it can be more effective against small prey, but not large. Antilopes can be hunted not by neo-bird of terror, but by pumas ore massive descendants of Leopardus species.

It makes sense. The descendant of the Leopardus could have a cheetah-like form.

лягушка пишет:

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I thing leopard can survive and continue lineage of pantherines, but I think that it's more realistic and interesting to wipe it out and give way to other felids. Most of Afro-Eurasia should be occupied by caracals, they can evolve into saber-toothed forms. Descendants of Felis genus, like african wildcat or feral cat descendants, also can evolve into big carnivores. Serval can take niche of cheetah in African savannahs. In both Americas, mountain lion lineage should continue and evolve into dominant macro-carnivores.

I like all these ideas! Besides these felines in Africa, the spotted hyena and striped hyena could also survive. In North America, descendants of coywolves could replace the true wolf. In South America, there could be descendants of the domestic dog hunting like African wild dog. Do you have other idea for canids and predators?

 Отправлено: 14.10.23 18:54. Заголовок: JOrnitho Or it dies..

JOrnitho

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Or it dies out and the goats or antelopes evolve to bull-like forms. By the way, which species of antelope you think that could survive?

Yeah, I think that goats and antelopes can evolve into something cattle-like.
You also asked what antelopes can survive. I don't know them well enough, but I think that some members of gazella genus, oryx, impala and someone from hartebeest lineage should survive. Bovinae lineage also shouldn't die out.

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The descendant of the Leopardus could have a cheetah-like form.

yeah, they can!

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Do you have other idea for canids and predators?

Huge raccoons at Sount America?

 Отправлено: 14.10.23 19:42. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Yeah..

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Yeah, I think that goats and antelopes can evolve into something cattle-like. You also asked what antelopes can survive. I don't know them well enough, but I think that some members of gazella genus, oryx, impala and someone from hartebeest lineage should survive. Bovinae lineage also shouldn't die out.

I think that domestic cattle could survive in most continents, perhaps the return of auroch-like forms. The domestic yak could survive in the himalayas and perhaps other areas of Asia.

лягушка пишет:

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Huge raccoons at Sount America

They could become bear like.

 Отправлено: 14.10.23 21:21. Заголовок: They could become be..

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They could become bear like

Like Chapalmalania?

 Отправлено: 15.10.23 02:36. Заголовок: медведь пишет: Like..

медведь пишет:

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Like Chapalmalania?

Yes! There could even be one eating bamboos, like a panda.

 Отправлено: 15.10.23 09:34. Заголовок: медведь Like Chapal..

медведь

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Like Chapalmalania?

Yeah! I mean this body shape.
Also, should South Ameica be isolated in your project? If not, bear-like raccons and some other species like velociraptor-sereimas can't exist due the concurence.

 Отправлено: 15.10.23 10:35. Заголовок: There could even be ..

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There could even be one eating bamboos, like a panda.

Interesting! For some reason, in South America have never been any large bamboo-eaters like pandas, gorillas and Gigantopithecus.

 Отправлено: 15.10.23 15:20. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Yeah..

лягушка пишет:

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Yeah! I mean this body shape. Also, should South Ameica be isolated in your project? If not, bear-like raccons and some other species like velociraptor-sereimas can't exist due the concurence.

I thought that the Panama landbridge would have collapsed due to tectonic movements.

 Отправлено: 15.10.23 19:05. Заголовок: JOrnitho I thought ..

JOrnitho

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I thought that the Panama landbridge would have collapsed due to tectonic movements.

Ok, it makes sense.

 Отправлено: 25.10.23 12:16. Заголовок: Regarding the Amazon..

Regarding the Amazon, I thought that due to rise of the sea level and tectonic movements, the entire basin could have become an internal sea, which would be surrounded by mangrove forest. In a place like this one, an endemic species of sea dolphin could appear, together with giant capybaras, caimans, turtles, aquatic birds and several other species.

 Отправлено: 25.10.23 21:03. Заголовок: Regarding the Amazon..

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Regarding the Amazon, I thought that due to rise of the sea level and tectonic movements, the entire basin could have become an internal sea, which would be surrounded by mangrove forest. In a place like this one, an endemic species of sea dolphin could appear, together with giant capybaras, caimans, turtles, aquatic birds and several other species.

Actually, if I remember correctly, it has been a bay when the Andes rose and blocked Amazon´s flow to the Pacific Ocean, but when it had not yet found a route to Atlantic.
I think there will be giant stingrays too!

 Отправлено: 26.10.23 05:16. Заголовок: медведь пишет: Actu..

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Actually, if I remember correctly, it has been a bay when the Andes rose and blocked Amazon´s flow to the Pacific Ocean, but when it had not yet found a route to Atlantic. I think there will be giant stingrays too!

Yes! And there would be sharks too.
Another idea that I had was that the hyrax could give rise to a genus that have structures like those of the brontotheres, with each species having one of a different shape. Another lineage of descendants of the hyrax would be large like paraceratherium, but filling the niche of elephants.

 Отправлено: 26.10.23 11:42. Заголовок: JOrnitho Another id..

JOrnitho

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Another idea that I had was that the hyrax could give rise to a genus that have structures like those of the brontotheres, with each species having one of a different shape. Another lineage of descendants of the hyrax would be large like paraceratherium, but filling the niche of elephants.

Yes, hyraxes can evolve into brontotherium-like of forms as they did it in Neocene!
However, I don't think that something paraceratherium-sized should evolve in future without large mass exctinction. Paraceratheres became so huge to defend against cumbersome hoofed carnivores, and now their niche is occupied by giraffes.

 Отправлено: 26.10.23 13:35. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Howe..

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However, I don't think that something paraceratherium-sized should evolve in future without large mass exctinction. Paraceratheres became so huge to defend against cumbersome hoofed carnivores, and now their niche is occupied by giraffes.

Maybe them can reach the size of elephants? Giraffes would be extinct, being replaced by camels. However, the niche of elephants would be left vacant.
Unless you think that they can survive.

 Отправлено: 26.10.23 15:05. Заголовок: JOrnitho Yeah, elep..

JOrnitho
Yeah, elephants should went extinct due hunting and slow reproduction. I think they should be replaced by something chalicothere-like. Trunked pigs also can evolve, but they may be hippo-like, not elephant-like.

 Отправлено: 26.10.23 21:38. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Yeah..

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Yeah, elephants should went extinct due hunting and slow reproduction. I think they should be replaced by something chalicothere-like. Trunked pigs also can evolve, but they may be hippo-like, not elephant-like.

The hyraxes could give rise to a chalicothere-like lineage.