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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 25.03.22 17:24. Заголовок: Galliformes and other animals for South America (продолжение)


Hello! I'm back with ideas for some new species for South America. I found in my computer an archive with some ideas for fauna and flora that I had some time ago and decided to show there to ask your opinion about them. The first is about a descendant of the domestic chicken.

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I also have in this archive some names for possible species that I never developed bayond some few facts. Maybe someone could help me make their descriptions.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.07.23 15:29. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: JOrni..


wovoka пишет:

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JOrnitho, I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks. I won’t have a laptop and I don’t know if there will be a normal Internet on the phone. Maybe you can take on the development the bestiary and the plan of the chapter about microwolves for this time. I think, for you, as a specialist in rodents, it will be especially interesting, and when I return, I will try to complete the descriptions of Maba, Ocumo, Knight-beetle and Water lily. And we will work on the chapters about Catatumbo & Maracaibo.


Ok! I'll work in these descriptions and in others that are pending.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.07.23 17:30. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Ok!..


JOrnitho пишет:

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Ok! I'll work in these descriptions and in others that are pending.


Thank you!




I just now thought that you are an expert in rodents and birds. And what if we come up with a chapter about some form of symbiosis between some rodent and a Passeriformes bird. Do you think such a symbiosis is possible, and what species of animal and bird could it be?

But let's make this chapter not in South America, but on some island in the Philippines, for example.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.07.23 20:09. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: I jus..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I just now thought that you are an expert in rodents and birds. And what if we come up with a chapter about some form of symbiosis between some rodent and a Passeriformes bird. Do you think such a symbiosis is possible, and what species of animal and bird could it be?

But let's make this chapter not in South America, but on some island in the Philippines, for example.


Maybe it's related to their nests. The bird could make a nest that is also used by the rodent and the mammal could offer some type of protection. Perhaps it could be in the Southeastern Asia? I had an idea of a descendant of the goat that could have an appearence like that of the cryptid Kting Voar

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.07.23 22:31. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: May..


JOrnitho пишет:

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Maybe it's related to their nests. The bird could make a nest that is also used by the rodent and the mammal could offer some type of protection. Perhaps it could be in the Southeastern Asia? I had an idea of a descendant of the goat that could have an appearence like that of the cryptid Kting Voar


Very good ideas we will use them in chapter. And my idea is the following, the goat, like Kting Voar,
eats some kind of shrub that is especially tasty for him. The bird rises into the air and looks out for a grazing goat in the thickets, it finds a rodent, and calls him along to find this bush. When a rodent finds a bush, it digs the ground under it, looking for a large number of tasty larvae there, feeding on the edible roots of the bush, since there are many larvae, both the rodent and the bird eat them. Also, a bird can help a rodent find anthills and termite mounds, and when irodent destroys them to eat insects, the bird eats eggs and insect larvae. We just need to decide on which island of the Philippine archipelago this happens, find out what plants with edible roots are there, what species of beetles larvae can eat them and decide what the species of insectivorous rodent and insectivorous
Passeriformes bird. As well as species of ants and termites. And perhaps some kind of bird of prey capable of hunting both a bird and a rodent. But the little bird will learn to distract the predator and thus save the life of his hunting partner. When I will return, I do a search for the island and animal species. I think eight biological species will be enough for the chapter: goat, rodent, insectivorous bird, bird of prey, beetle with tasty larvae, ants, termites, edible bush may be with berries which also will eat the "partners".

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.07.23 00:25. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Very ..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Very good ideas we will use them in chapter. And my idea is the following, the goat, like Kting Voar,
eats some kind of shrub that is especially tasty for him. The bird rises into the air and looks out for a grazing goat in the thickets, it finds a rodent, and calls him along to find this bush. When a rodent finds a bush, it digs the ground under it, looking for a large number of tasty larvae there, feeding on the edible roots of the bush, since there are many larvae, both the rodent and the bird eat them. Also, a bird can help a rodent find anthills and termite mounds, and when irodent destroys them to eat insects, the bird eats eggs and insect larvae. We just need to decide on which island of the Philippine archipelago this happens, find out what plants with edible roots are there, what species of beetles larvae can eat them and decide what the species of insectivorous rodent and insectivorous
Passeriformes bird. As well as species of ants and termites. And perhaps some kind of bird of prey capable of hunting both a bird and a rodent. But the little bird will learn to distract the predator and thus save the life of his hunting partner. When I will return, I do a search for the island and animal species. I think eight biological species will be enough for the chapter: goat, rodent, insectivorous bird, bird of prey, beetle with tasty larvae, ants, termites, edible bush may be with berries which also will eat the "partners".



I like it! This passerine could be like the Indicatoridae, but showing anthills and termitaries. Don't you think that this chapter fould happen in Cambodia or Vietnam?

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.07.23 15:04. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I l..


JOrnitho пишет:

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I like it! This passerine could be like the Indicatoridae, but showing anthills and termitaries.


Yes!

Not in Cambodia, not in Vietnam, not Philippine archipelago there is no wild species of goats, only domestic or became feral domestic goats.
So it is not important in what part of South Eastern Asia to make chapter.

I prefer one of two Philippine islands were there goat farms: Negros and Bohol. But in neocene map Negros almost became a one island with Panay and Cebu. But i want not very big island. So it will be Bohol.
Phisical map of Bohol https://ppdo.bohol.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/wppa/292.jpg
And I like one of goat breeds that is used by farmers of Philippine: Boer goat. May be our goat will become bigger and more massive with horns like has Kting Voar and big hanging ears.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_goat

Rodent can be Rattus tanezumi, Rattus exulans, Rattus everetti, Bullimus bagobus, Batomys salomonseni.
Who is better?

The Passeriformes bird will be Rhipidura samarensis its behavior it's that what we need! It's endemic of some islands of Philippines but it has Least Concern status.
Or, if not this bird, than it can be Hypothymis azurea it has very huge areal in South Eastern Asia.
But I prefer the first variant.

Bird of prey will be Besra sparrowhawk (Accipiter virgatus).

There is no termites on the island but they could get there from nearby islands. The species will be Macrotermes gilvus.

On the island there only two species of ants and both are very aggressive invasive species Solenopsis geminata and Anoplolepis gracilipes. We can describe war between armies of these two species for the colonies of Ricania speculum which produce honeydew sucking sap of Arenga tremula (this insect doesn't present on the island but can get from nearby islands). Our little bird will eat imago, nymphs and eggs of Ricania speculum.

Our rodent will need some protective organs two feed both these ants, because they just could kill him. And this will be not enough one bird two help him but a flock of Rhipidura samarensis.

The beetle will be Leucopholis irrorata.

The plant which roots will eat his larvae and which leaves will eat goat and which berries will eat bird and rodent will be Cordyline fruticosa.

The big prey animal that will hunt on goats will be native Viverra tangalunga.

The species we can add to chapter or do not.

Also partners may be will eat berries Antidesma bunius (there is no on the island but the birds could bring seeds with their guano from nearby islands).

Also can be native for this island beetles:
1. Onthophagus armatus eating dung of goat.
2. Oryctes rhinoceros pest of Arenga tremula the ants will eat it's larvae.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.07.23 17:02. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: I pre..


wovoka пишет:

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I prefer one of two Philippine islands were there goat farms: Negros and Bohol. But in neocene map Negros almost became a one island with Panay and Cebu. But i want not very big island. So it will be Bohol.
Phisical map of Bohol https://ppdo.bohol.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/wppa/292.jpg
And I like one of goat breeds that is used by farmers of Philippine: Boer goat. May be our goat will become bigger and more massive with horns like has Kting Voar and big hanging ears.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_goat


I like it! The Kting voar could be like a bull, similar to the extinct kouprey, but with these characteristics.
Sometime ago I proposed some animals for the Philippines too. Here they are:
A semi-aquatic descendant of the pig, called Khinzir (Khinzir amphibius) that live in Philippines, Borneo and Sulawesi.
A descendant of the descendant of the Philippine mouse-deer called three-horned deer (Amplitragulus tricornis).
A predatory descendant of the asian house shrew called Giant chuchunder (Chuchunder ferox). It have the size of a raccon.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Rodent can be Rattus tanezumi, Rattus exulans, Rattus everetti, Bullimus bagobus, Batomys salomonseni.
Who is better?


We could use the Rattus everetti. We could do something interesting with Rattus tanezumi, perhaps an arboreal species like the South American Echimyidae.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
The Passeriformes bird will be Rhipidura samarensis its behavior it's that what we need! It's endemic of some islands of Philippines but it has Least Concern status.
Or, if not this bird, than it can be Hypothymis azurea it has very huge areal in South Eastern Asia.
But I prefer the first variant.


I think that Rhipidura samarensis is good as the ancestor. Later we could use Hypothymis azurea as an ancestor for Formicariidae-like birds in Asia.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.07.23 17:19. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I l..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like it! The Kting voar could be like a bull, similar to the extinct kouprey, but with these characteristics.


Cool idea!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
We could use the Rattus everetti. We could do something interesting with Rattus tanezumi, perhaps an arboreal species like the South American Echimyidae.


Ok! Let's do it!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
A semi-aquatic descendant of the pig, called Khinzir (Khinzir amphibius) that live in Philippines, Borneo and Sulawesi.
A descendant of the descendant of the Philippine mouse-deer called three-horned deer (Amplitragulus tricornis).
A predatory descendant of the asian house shrew called Giant chuchunder (Chuchunder ferox). It have the size of a raccon.


We can use them also in chapter.

But i don't know how Three-horned deer (Amplitragulus tricornis) will get to Bohol, now Tragulus nigricans living only in Palawan and Balabac and he is endangared. Better make in somebody like that in Borneo from Tragulus napu or Tragulus kanchil.


The forest will consist of trees from Holocene Bohol island: Vitex parviflora, Swietenia mahagoni, Ficus elastica, Artocarpus heterophyllus, Pandanus tectorius.
In what tree rodent and bird will better make their common nest?

And also they will prefer to live on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate_Hills

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.07.23 19:55. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: But i..


wovoka пишет:

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But i don't know how Three-horned deer (Amplitragulus tricornis) will get to Bohol, now Tragulus nigricans living only in Palawan and Balabac and he is endangared. Better make in somebody like that in Borneo from Tragulus napu or Tragulus kanchil.


When I made this animal, I thought that it would live in Palawan and Balabac. Isn’t possible for one of the other species to move to the Philippines through island jumping?

wovoka пишет:

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In what tree rodent and bird will better make their common nest?


I think that Vitex parviflora could work.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.07.23 22:32. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Whe..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
When I made this animal, I thought that it would live in Palawan and Balabac. Isn’t possible for one of the other species to move to the Philippines through island jumping?


That's why, unfortunately, we couldn't include this animal in the chapter.

JOrnitho пишет:

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I think that Vitex parviflora could work.


So then they will live in common nest on this tree.

But how it will look like this common nest? This was your idea, can you describe it in more detail?

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.07.23 01:55. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: But h..


wovoka пишет:

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But how it will look like this common nest? This was your idea, can you describe it in more detail?


I thought that these birds could make comunal nests, where the rats would also live.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.07.23 02:09. Заголовок: But how that nest wi..


But how that nest will look like?

And one more question. Your Idea was that rodent wold protect bird from enemies.

In Bohol live Paradoxurus hermaphroditus it could be the main enemy for bird and rodent when they are in the nest, how would rodent protect himself and bird?

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.07.23 13:38. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: But h..


wovoka пишет:

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But how that nest will look like?


I thought that it could be like those of a monk parakeet. They would build a single large nest with separate entrances for each pair. The colony would become large, with pairs occupying separate sections in composite nests.
Talking about monk parakeets, they are good birds to appear in the chapter about eucalyptus and acacia woods. These birds expanded their territory because of the artificial forests. We could make an interesting descendant for them.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
In Bohol live Paradoxurus hermaphroditus it could be the main enemy for bird and rodent when they are in the nest, how would rodent protect himself and bird?


These rodents could also add sticks in the bird's nest, increasing it so they could make their own home. Living in large groups, they could also be aggressive, mobbing against predators.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 17.07.23 13:11. Заголовок: I came back! Intere..


I came back!

Interesting ideas. I agree with everything.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 21.07.23 02:46. Заголовок: wovoka You mentione..


wovoka
You mentioned that you wanted to make an analogue to the megaloceros, so I thought that we could use the red deer that was introduced in Argentina and Chile. It could living in the Valdivian temperate forests and be tall, so it would feed in the tree branches and avoid competition with deermaras and local smaller deers. We could have it develop an antler in a different shape (maybe a crescent shape, so it could be a moon deer).
Another candidate could be the fallow deer that was also introduced in Argentina and Chile, but this species don't fare well with glaciations. While it was even introduced in South Africa, I don't know if it can survive in any of the places where it was introduced after the Ice Age, besides the already established New Zealand.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.08.23 01:27. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: wov..


JOrnitho пишет:

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wovoka
You mentioned that you wanted to make an analogue to the megaloceros, so I thought that we could use the red deer that was introduced in Argentina and Chile. It could living in the Valdivian temperate forests and be tall, so it would feed in the tree branches and avoid competition with deermaras and local smaller deers. We could have it develop an antler in a different shape (maybe a crescent shape, so it could be a moon deer).
Another candidate could be the fallow deer that was also introduced in Argentina and Chile, but this species don't fare well with glaciations. While it was even introduced in South Africa, I don't know if it can survive in any of the places where it was introduced after the Ice Age, besides the already established New Zealand.



It is cool idea!
Оффтоп: It is strange I was sure I answered on this post.

JOrnitho, I at last have made the description of Maba for our chapter about Catatumbo river
https://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-1-1690928393181-00000049-000-10001-0#056

But the description is in Russian and very long.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 08.08.23 03:09. Заголовок: Finished the descrip..


Finished the description of some mongosses. Did we talked about other possible descendants?
Also, if someone have a better name for the South American mongoose, I'm accepting. This one pretty bad, but it was only what I could think at the moment.

South American meerkat (Parasuricata sociabilis)
Order:Carnivora
Family:Hespertidae
Habitat:Savannas of Central South America
During the entire Holocene, the introduction of animals by humans in habitats that weren’t their own was a common practice. The small Indian mongoose (Urva auropunctata) was introduced by the humans in the Caribbean island of Trinidad and in Surinam, French Guiana and Guyana in South America. This species proved to be well adapted for these areas and thrived. During the Neocene, the South American population had not only spread through the tropical areas of the continent, but had also generated a new subfamily, the Austrohespertinae, the South American mongooses. Among the species of this group is the South American meerkat, an inhabitant of savannas of Central South America.
The South American meerkat is a small social mongoose with a slim build characterized by a broad head, large eyes, a pointed snout, long legs and a thin tapering tail. The head-and-body length is around 25–37 cm, and the weight is between 0.66–1 kg. Their soft fur is reddish-brown with dark gray stripes running down from its back to the base of the tail, which is covered by black rings and ends in a black tip.
This species is primarily an insectivore, feeding heavily on beetles and lepidopterans; it can additionally feed on eggs, amphibians, scorpions and spiders, to whose venom they are immune, reptiles, small birds, plants and seeds. On the other hand, they are preyed on by birds of prey, large felines and snakes.
The reason why this species receives the name of meerkat is due to the fact that they are social animals like the true meerkats from the Holocene. This species forms packs of two to 30 individuals each comprising nearly equal numbers of either sex and multiple family units of pairs and their offspring. Members of a pack take turns at jobs such as looking after pups and keeping a lookout for predators. They are a cooperatively breeding species—typically the dominant 'breeders' in a pack produce offspring, and the nonbreeding, subordinate 'helpers' provide altruistic care for the pups. This division of labor is not as strictly defined as it is in specialized eusocial species, Moreover, they have a clear dominance hierarchy with older individuals having a higher social status.
South American meerkats are highly vigilant, and frequently survey their surroundings by turning their heads side to side, with some individuals always standing sentry and looking out for danger. Vocal communication is used frequently in different contexts, with repetitive, high-pitched barks used to warn others of predators nearby.
A pack generally occupies a home range, 4 km2 large on average but sometimes as big as 10 km2, containing many burrows 50 to 100 m apart, of which some remain unused. These burrows are excavated by themselves. The area near the periphery of home ranges is scent marked mostly by the dominant individuals. They are very territorial, with encounters between members of different packs being highly aggressive, leading to severe injuries and often deaths.
Subordinate individuals rarely are able to breed successfully, with dominant females often killing the litters of subordinate ones. As such, subordinate individuals will disperse to other packs to find mates during the breeding season.
South American meerkats breed throughout the year with seasonal peaks, typically during months of heavy rainfall. After a gestation of 60 days, a litter of three to seven pups is born. They are born blind and deaf. Young pups are kept securely in a den, from where they emerge after around 16 days, the time that their eyes and ears are fully open. They start foraging with adults by 26 days. The nonbreeding members of the pack help substantially with juvenile care, for instance they feed the pups and huddle with them for warmth. The pups learn how to forage by watching their relatives, becoming old enough to forage within 12 weeks. They reach sexual maturity within two or three years and the lifespan is 15 years.

Amazon mongoose (Neourva amazonica)
Order:Carnivora
Family:Hespertidae
Habitat: Amazon rainforest, in areas of “terra firme” forest.
During the Holocene, humans had introduced small Indian mongoose (Urva auropunctata) to Surinam, French Guiana and Guyana in South America. The animals thrived in these countries and by the Neocene they left descendants, which together form the subfamily Austrohespertinae. Several genera had spread through the continent, inhabiting different biomes. One of them is the Amazon mongoose, an inhabitant of “terra firme” areas in the Amazon rainforest.
This species has the appearance of a typical mongoose. Its body is slender, and the head is elongated with a pointed snout. The length of the head and body is 55 cm, with a tail having 45 cm. The ears are short and round. The feet have five toes and long claws. Sexes differ in size, with males having a wider head and bigger bodies. Their fur is dark brown in the upperparts, while the belly is light brown.
Amazon mongoose and other species of the genus Neourva had become great predators of serpents. They primarily achieves this through tiring the snake out, by enticing it to make multiple strikes which it acrobatically avoids. Secondary protection against the venomous bite includes the stiff rigid hair, which is excited at such times, the thick loose skin and specialized acetylcholine receptors render it resistant or immune to venom. Besides it, mongooses will also eat insects including dragonflies, grasshoppers, mole crickets, ground beetles, earwigs and ants. It also preys on spiders, scorpions, amphibs, birds, rats and small marsupials. Non venomous snakes are also eaten, but they avoid large species.
They are solitary animals, only being seen in pairs during the mating season, which starts in rainy periods. The gestation period lasts for 60 to 65 days, the female gives birth to two to four offspring. They remain with their mother until reaching seven months, during this period they learn how to find food and to hunt venomous serpents. Sexual maturity is reached within ten months and they have a lifespan of 10 years.
Other representatives of the genus Neourva are:
Andean mongoose (Neourva minor)
This species is an inhabitant of the Andean cloud forests. The smallest representative of the genus, with 16-23 cm of length. It has a large pointed head, small ears, a long tail, short limbs and long claws. The fur is a golden brown fur in the back and only gold in the belly.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 08.08.23 10:28. Заголовок: Interesting animals!..


Interesting animals!

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 08.08.23 15:28. Заголовок: JOrnitho Good anima..


JOrnitho
Good animals!

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Good animals!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
South American meerkat


Then better "pseudomeerkat"

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Did we talked about other possible descendants?


We were talking about:
1. the biggest Andean bear-like mongoose (hunts giant boas, very long poisonous snakes, huge tegus, although it can even sometimes hunt young and very old deers).
2. Hyena-like mongoose in some South American desert, eat can be saber-toothed eating armadillo and also big snakes and tegus.
3. Karumboi (in tapiete - he eats snake) mongoose from Marvelous Forest. He would be not like real mongoose, he would be like Galidia elegans (also red, but not only with a striped tail, but with a completely striped body, only with ginger head).
4. Mouse-sized mongooses from Marvelous forest: one smaller ticks and small spiders eating and one bigger eating little scorpions, centipedes and poison dart frogs. Names: A. Sanguya-aguara; B. Urare-aguara (Sanguya-aguara - (in tupi "sanguya" (correctly writing sanguja, but spelling Sanguya, in tapiete just anguya) means any myomorphs, aguara - means racoon) - so the name will translate mouse-racoon - this will be name of smaller mongoose; Urare-aguara - (in tupi "urare" means animal from the family Echimyidae) - this will be name of bigger mongoose)
5. Kuatirana-aguara (kuatirana - squirell in guarani, aguara - racoon in tupi) in Marvelous forest - Squirrel honey&nectar-eating mongoose. (His relative lemur-mongoose (mongoose looking like lemur, with lemur way of life and diet: absolutely herbivorous, eating fruits, berries, leaves, edible roots, may be nuts and mushrooms. I'll describe him for the chapter about jaguape).

Also we can settle somewhere:
1. weasel like mongoose, eating birds and their eggs on trees;0000
2. mongoose like Liberiictis kuhni with long nose eating earthworms;
3. mongoose with pig nose like Arctonyx collaris eating leeches, poisonous frogs and so on;
4. mongoose like kusimanse - although eating not termites but Bumble Bees and social earth wasps like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agelaia_pallipes

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