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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 25.03.22 17:24. Заголовок: Galliformes and other animals for South America (продолжение)


Hello! I'm back with ideas for some new species for South America. I found in my computer an archive with some ideas for fauna and flora that I had some time ago and decided to show there to ask your opinion about them. The first is about a descendant of the domestic chicken.

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I also have in this archive some names for possible species that I never developed bayond some few facts. Maybe someone could help me make their descriptions.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 11.04.23 21:33. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: The..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
They could be more colorful or have some sweet smell coming from them, perhaps even exudates a sweet substance to attract animals.


May be you don't understand my question ... There is no one plant in order Nymphaeales that produce "juicy fruits".

So my question: what part of the flower of waterlily will become a "fruit" and how it evolves into a "fruit"?



Or you mean that the capsule of waterlily will become a "juicy edible fruit"?

Cyculi will eat it, fruit will digest in the stomach, but the water lily seeds also will have some kind of tasty shell that is also digested in the stomach of the sungrebe, and the internal contents of the seed will be indigestible, but these internal contents of the seed themselves will ripen under the influence of enzymes in Cyculi stomach, and with the droppings the bird will settle the waterlily along the entire water coast of the Catatumbo River.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
What do you think of a small species of semi-aquatic rodent visiting the water lilies during the night in search of seeds and fruits? Depending of its size, they could also be able to crack the armor of the Knight beetles.


It can be be:
Sigmodontomys alfari
or which is less likely Zygodontomys brevicauda
taporoporo wèpomy korònaka (in carib language it's mean "little mouse swimming underwater") You can mix that words as you wish" or just "little mouse" or "swimming little mouse" or "underwater little mouse"
Just name it in english and I'll tranlate it in carib.

But better it will be bat (one of these):
Micronycteris megalotis
Dermanura phaeotis
Lonchophylla robusta
Rhinophylla pumilio
The name will be Rere or Parerejài (bat in carib) Choose the name by yourself!
I ranked them in order of priority.

лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
but it's still active!


Yes, we are going to make two related chapters about Maracaibo gulf & Catatumbo delta!

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 11.04.23 23:55. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Or yo..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Or you mean that the capsule of waterlily will become a "juicy edible fruit"?


I mean, the capsule could become edible and more attractive to animals. It could produce a sweet fragrance, which would come to feed of the bright colored seeds.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Sigmodontomys alfari


I think that it could be the ancestor. Can you translate "little water mouse"? I think that it could be a good name for this species. They could make nests hidden in the aquatic vegetation.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
But better it will be bat


Maybe we can have a bat and a rodent? It could be the Dermanura phaeotis and the bats could drink nectar of the water lilies, hunt some insects and occasionally eat the seeds.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 01:46. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I m..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I mean, the capsule could become edible and more attractive to animals. It could produce a sweet fragrance, which would come to feed of the bright seeds.


I propose the capsule became a sweet fragrant juicy edible fruit.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Sigmodontomys alfari. I think that it could be the ancestor.


Ok, I agree.

I propose three variants of name:
Tuna taporoporo (water little mouse)
Wèpomy taporoporo (swimming little mouse)
Korònaka taporoporo (undewater little mouse), if he could dive and swim underwater, then I preffer this name. This name is some kind of courageous)))

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Maybe we can have a bat and a rodent? It could be the Dermanura phaeotis and the bats could drink nectar of the water lilies, hunt some insects and occasionally eat the seeds.


Ok, we can take both.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
It could be the Dermanura phaeotis and the bats could drink nectar of the water lilies, hunt some insects and occasionally eat the seeds.


I approve of your choice!
And what name we will give to this bat: Rere or Parerejài?
Both names are interesting, but first, as for me, is shorter.


Then let it be also an owl, that will hunt on water and other animals: water rodent, frog, crab, bat, Ai-Karala and even fishes. The ancestor Glaucidium brasilianum. It will be like fishing owls of the genera Ketupa or Scotopelia. The name Tukutuku - owl in carib.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 02:36. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: I pro..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I propose the capsule became a sweet fragrant juicy edible fruit.


Good idea! What do you think if there is relationship between the bat and the mouse when feeding of this fruit? The skin of the fruit could be a bit thick, taking so much effort of the bats to open it. The rodent would come first, openning the skin. Then the bats would consume the rest that was left open. In this case the consumption of these fruits would be more opportunistic.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Korònaka taporoporo (undewater little mouse), if he could dive and swim underwater, then I preffer this name. This name is some kind of courageous)))


I like it too. Maybe it could occasionally dive to reach the eggs that fishes lay under the water lilies.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
And what name we will give to this bat: Rere or Parerejài?


I like Parerejài.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Then let it be also an owl, that will hunt on water and other animals: water rodent, frog, crab, bat, Ai-Karala and even fishes. The ancestor Glaucidium brasilianum. It will be like fishing owls of the genera Ketupa or Scotopelia. The name Tukutuku - owl in carib.


I proposed the genus Piscatostrix fishing owl for South America sometime ago, but the ancestor is the Lophostrix cristata. It's the Nhakurutukutu (owl in Tupi-Guarani). What do you think if the Tukutuku is a member of this genus, but endemic to the Maracaibo?

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 09:01. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Goo..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Good idea! What do you think if there is relationship between the bat and the mouse when feeding of this fruit? The skin of the fruit could be a bit thick, taking so much effort of the bats to open it. The rodent would come first, openning the skin. Then the bats would consume the rest that was left open. In this case the consumption of these fruits would be more opportunistic.


I agree, but Cyculi could eat and digest the whole fruit.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like it too. Maybe it could occasionally dive to reach the eggs that fishes lay under the water lilies.


Ok! I think it could!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like Parerejài.


I more like the shorter one, but let it be Parerejài - it's more exotic one

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I proposed the genus Piscatostrix fishing owl for South America sometime ago, but the ancestor is the Lophostrix cristata. It's the Nhakurutukutu (owl in Tupi-Guarani). What do you think if the Tukutuku is a member of this genus, but endemic to the Maracaibo?


Ok! I agree! And how many species include this genus? What the areal of the genus and it's different species?

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медведь





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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 10:10. Заголовок: What do you think if..



 цитата:
What do you think if the Tukutuku is a member of this genus, but endemic to the Maracaibo?


Owls do not usually have such small distributions.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 13:53. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: I agr..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I agree, but Cyculi could eat and digest the whole fruit.


Yes. They could be adapted to swallow the fruit and digest it.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Ok! I agree! And how many species include this genus? What the areal of the genus and it's different species?


The genus only have one species so far, which is distributed across the Amazon Basin. The Tukutuku could inhabit the Maracaibo region and other areas of Northern South America. We could make it similar to what happens with the genus Pulsatrix in Brazil, with one species (P. perspicillata) being widespread, while other (P. koeniswaldiana) is endemic to the Atlantic forest.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 15:09. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: The..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The genus only have one species so far, which is distributed across the Amazon Basin. The Tukutuku could inhabit the Maracaibo region and other areas of Northern South America. We could make it similar to what happens with the genus Pulsatrix in Brazil, with one species (P. perspicillata) being widespread, while other (P. koeniswaldiana) is endemic to the Atlantic forest.


I've understood.

I think the owl should be the last species of the chapter, because there are already too many of them.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 19:11. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: I thi..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I think the owl should be the last species of the chapter, because there are already too many of them.


I agree.
By the way, what do you think if the mouse's swimming abilities is also used by it to escape from predators?

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 20:30. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: wha..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
what do you think if the mouse's swimming abilities is also used by it to escape from predators?


It will be something like a "swimming superpower"?
No really, what is that special "swimming abilities"?
Do you mean the speed of swimming, the ability to quickly change the direction of swimming, the ability to dive very quickly to depth, or vice versa, the ability to swim like a dolphin, jumping out of the water, evading predatory fish or something else?

I've end the description of sea turtle for Maracaibo Gulf https://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1681319764554-00000176-000-10001-0#051 again in Russian.
But I gave it another name Kataru - in carib it is the name of sea turtle Chelonia mydas.
Or full name Maracaibian bat turtle, or kataru (Pteromedusa kataru)

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 21:42. Заголовок: JOrnitho, did you kn..


JOrnitho, did you know about such neocene plant: Fly-catching tomato (Neolycopersicon muscicarpus) http://www.sivatherium.narod.ru/enplants.htm#neolycopersicon_muscicarpus_en ???

What do you think, where in Neocene South America this plant can grow? These must be places with very poor soils.
The description says:

 цитата:
Habitat: South America, light forests in tropical and subtropical areas.



May be in far future, when we realize all our plans of chapters, we could make a chapter dedicated to the dense thicket of this plant, its victims, parasites, kleptoparasites and pollinators:

 цитата:
Lateral sprouts and top rise vertically, and the plant forms the dense thicket.
...
The plant consumes tiny soft-bodied insects – plant lice, thripses, small caterpillars and maggots
...
This plant is pollinated by insects
...
Some species of bugs and beetles are adapted to “robbing” of this plant: they seize stuck insects from its leaves.
...
Fruit of this plant is small red berry. In ripen condition the fruit of plant is edible, and it is eaten willingly by large ground rodents.



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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 12.04.23 23:44. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Do yo..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Do you mean the speed of swimming, the ability to quickly change the direction of swimming, the ability to dive very quickly to depth, or vice versa, the ability to swim like a dolphin, jumping out of the water, evading predatory fish or something else?


It's more the fact that they can jump from the vegetation to the water and swim faster than their ancestors. Perhaps they can stay under water for a long time, reaching the surface only when its safe.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I've end the description of sea turtle for Maracaibo Gulf https://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1681319764554-00000176-000-10001-0#051 again in Russian.


It's a cool animal (I used the translator)! I finished the description of the ariid catfish, but I'll post it together with the description of other three fishes.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
What do you think, where in Neocene South America this plant can grow? These must be places with very poor soils.


I think that the Andes could be a good place. The tepuis of Amazon and the "campos de altitude" of the mountains of Southeastern South America are also good candidates. These "campos" are biomes that remained from the last glaciation and are full of endemic species.
Both tepuis and campos are interesting place for chapters!

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 10:19. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: It&..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
It's more the fact that they can jump from the vegetation to the water and swim faster than their ancestors. Perhaps they can stay under water for a long time, reaching the surface only when its safe.


Accepted!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
It's a cool animal


Thank you!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I finished the description of the ariid catfish, but I'll post it together with the description of other three fishes.


I'll be waiting for your descriptions!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I think that the Andes could be a good place. The tepuis of Amazon and the "campos de altitude" of the mountains of Southeastern South America are also good candidates. These "campos" are biomes that remained from the last glaciation and are full of endemic species.
Both tepuis and campos are interesting place for chapters!



Do tepuis or campos have areas of dry sparse light forests?

May be I'll somewhen make bestiary for the future chapter about this Fly-catching tomato.
You probably already understood, I adore making bestiaries.
I think this tomato could enter into symbiosis with some kind of Carnivorous fungus.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 11:38. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Do te..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Do tepuis or campos have areas of dry sparse light forests?


The slopes of the Tepuis are dry, but the campos usually have lower temperatures than the forests in the lower lands that surround it.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I think this tomato could enter into symbiosis with some kind of Carnivorous fungus.


Interesting. Would this fungus also catch nematodes?

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 13:39. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: The..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The slopes of the Tepuis are dry, but the Campos usually have lower temperatures than the forests in the lower lands that surround it.


As far as I understand there are a lot of carnivorous species of plants on Tepuis, but how tomato will get there?

And then the description says
 цитата:
Habitat: South America, light forests in tropical and subtropical areas.


Are there in South America any forests with very poor soils?

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Interesting. Would this fungus also catch nematodes?


I hope something more big, like mole crickets.

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лягушка
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 14:18. Заголовок: b]wovoka As far as ..


wovoka

 цитата:
As far as I understand there are a lot of carnivorous species of plants on Tepuis, but how tomato will get there?


No. Fly-catcher tomato grows in light forest, so I think that strange habitat of tepuis won't be good for it. But we can place other carnivore plants on tepuis, like already evolved Drosera and Sarracenia species or predatory bromeliads.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 14:59. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Fly-..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
Fly-catcher tomato grows in light forest


Yes, that's why, if we want to make a chapter about this plant, we need to find the light forests in South America with poor soils.

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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 17:18. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Yes, ..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Yes, that's why, if we want to make a chapter about this plant, we need to find the light forests in South America with poor soils.


Maybe savannahs and gallery forests. The Caatinga of Brazil is also mostly dry shrubland.

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медведь





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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 18:58. Заголовок: predatory bromeliads..



 цитата:
predatory bromeliads


That seems interesting!

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лягушка
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 13.04.23 19:05. Заголовок: медведь That seems ..


медведь

 цитата:
That seems interesting!


We already have protocarnivorous ones: Brocchinia reducta and Catopsis berteroniana. It can evolve in something new in Neocene.

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