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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 25.03.22 17:24. Заголовок: Galliformes and other animals for South America (продолжение)


Hello! I'm back with ideas for some new species for South America. I found in my computer an archive with some ideas for fauna and flora that I had some time ago and decided to show there to ask your opinion about them. The first is about a descendant of the domestic chicken.

Скрытый текст


I also have in this archive some names for possible species that I never developed bayond some few facts. Maybe someone could help me make their descriptions.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 08:50. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Atl..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Atlantic mborevi (Probocitherium grandis)


I like the description.

So we need the description of aguti "forest macrauhenia" to understand the relationships between them and mborevi.
I found the vocabulary of language tapiete (it is the version of Guarani), but guarani and tupi are very close as I understand.

So in tapiete lama - wasuraimiwa, forest -ka’a, nose - tenti, long - puku.

So full name can be Pukutenti ka’awasuraimiwa (long-nosed forest lama) or just Pukutenti wasuraimiwa.
or take word wanaku - guanaco (Pukutenti ka’awanaku).

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Rather than giving horns to it, what do you think of having the males develop some type of structure used for intraspecific disputes?


For example?
I thought the horns wouldn't be the weapon for fighting of males, it will be just instrument of demonstration of sexual power of male: the more horn the more sexually attractive the male for females.

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медведь





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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 10:00. Заголовок: Interesting animal!..


Interesting animal!

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 14:44. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: So fu..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
So full name can be Pukutenti ka’awasuraimiwa (long-nosed forest lama) or just Pukutenti wasuraimiwa.
or take word wanaku - guanaco (Pukutenti ka’awanaku).


I like Pukutenti ka’awanaku more.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
For example?
I thought the horns wouldn't be the weapon for fighting of males, it will be just instrument of demonstration of sexual power of male: the more horn the more sexually attractive the male for females.


Then the horns could be used this way, rather than a weapon for intraspecific disputes.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 16:05. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I l..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like Pukutenti ka’awanaku more.


Yes, it's shorter.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Then the horns could be used this way, rather than a weapon for intraspecific disputes.


Ok! And what will be "the weapon for intraspecific disputes"?

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 16:24. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Ok! A..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Ok! And what will be "the weapon for intraspecific disputes"?


Maybe a mace-like tail? The males could have a solid structure at the tip that they use to fight each other.

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wovoka
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Пост N: 5258
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 17:05. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: The..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The males could have a solid structure at the tip that they use to fight each other.


Like Doedicurus clavicaudatus?

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 19:22. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Like ..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Like Doedicurus clavicaudatus?


Yes, but the tail could be more like that of the dinosaur Stegouros elengassen, with seven pairs of flat, blade-like bony scales fused together.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 19:57. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Yes..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Yes, but the tail could be more like that of the dinosaur Stegouros elengassen, with seven pairs of flat, blade-like bony scales fused together.


Cool!

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 20:36. Заголовок: JOrnitho, I decided ..


JOrnitho, I decided to make a little intro to the chapter "Marvellous Forest"
It's here:
http://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-7-1685726303941-00000031-000-0-0#000.001
in English (sorry for my English).

Two explanations.

I decided to give the english name to Pukutenti ka’awanaku - forest litopternoagouti. What do you think?

Also we decided to make little predator opossum (the descendant of Didelphis albiventris) that look like little Sparassodonta, I decided to choose cladosiktis from epoche of Miocene: english name neocladosiktis, tupi-guarani name pukutirai gaba (in tapiete language: puku – long, ti-r-äï -tooth, in tupi language gã'bá - opossum).

Nobody knows what was it's color.
I've found to versions:
Скрытый текст

Which you like more?

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 02.06.23 22:44. Заголовок: One more idea for &#..


One more idea for "Marvellous Forest" make Brotogeris tirica not only eating seeds, fruit, flowers, and nectar from a very wide variety of plants and trees & adult and larval insects, but eating ticks from the skin of Mborevi and other herbivorous animals. The name of Brotogeris tirica by Tupi language - Tiriba.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 02:29. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: JOrni..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
JOrnitho, I decided to make a little intro to the chapter "Marvellous Forest"
It's here:
http://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-7-1685726303941-00000031-000-0-0#000.001
in English (sorry for my English).


I like it!

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I decided to give the english name to Pukutenti ka’awanaku - forest litopternoagouti. What do you think?
Also we decided to make little predator opossum (the descendant of Didelphis albiventris) that look like little Sparassodonta, I decided to choose cladosiktis from epoche of Miocene: english name neocladosiktis, tupi-guarani name pukutirai gaba (in tapiete language: puku – long, ti-r-äï -tooth, in tupi language gã'bá - opossum).


I like the name of both animals. Would the neocladosiktis be part of the Martenodelphidae? It's life style suits that of the martem opossum, their close relative. If we do it, I think that we could have the mongooses be the ones feeding of serpents and scorpions, since we would already have a cool marsupial predator.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Which you like more?


I like the color of the first one, but with the body shape of the second. This combination remember me of a quoll (Dasyurus). I think that the neocladosiktis would have a lifestyle simialr to the quolls, but living in the trees.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
One more idea for "Marvellous Forest" make Brotogeris tirica not only eating seeds, fruit, flowers, and nectar from a very wide variety of plants and trees & adult and larval insects, but eating ticks from the skin of Mborevi and other herbivorous animals. The name of Brotogeris tirica by Tupi language - Tiriba.


This is a nice idea! These Brotogeris could also do it with Tapirotherium and barocavias.

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wovoka
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Пост N: 5267
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 05:52. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I l..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like it!


Thank you!
Later I'll try to make the plan of rhe chapter.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Would the neocladosiktis be part of the Martenodelphidae?


Would they have the same ancestor:
Didelphis albiventris? Then ok. But it's aninal now have such areal: Скрытый текст
Could he get to Amazonia to neocene?

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like the color of the first one, but with the body shape of the second. This combination remember me of a quoll (Dasyurus).


Yes, they have something similar.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I think that the neocladosiktis would have a lifestyle simialr to the quolls, but living in the trees.


I think he could periodically hunt on the earth or even sleep in the earth holes especially in dry seasons. Or even so: the younger persons living on the trees
and hunting in the night, the old and larger persons with big hunting expirience live on the earth, sleep in the earth holes and hunt in the morning or evening and like bigger prey. The persons of middle age part of the life spending on trees and part on earth.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
These Brotogeris could also do it with Tapirotherium and barocavias.


I was thinking he would live only in Atlantic forest, because today Brotogeris tirica have a very small living areal
Скрытый текст
He need to expanse living space to neocene for eating ticks of amazonian tapirotherium.




I would also like to "reanimate" such animals:
Скрытый текст

What do you think who could be the ansectors, and were we can settle them?

First may be only capibara or paca, somewhere in pampas.
The second can be tuco-tuco in wet Pampa or marshes, or may be in shrubs.
The third can be some meat eating Rattus norvegicus somewere in desert. Or may be somebody else? May be some monkey living in desert?

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 15:20. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Would..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Would they have the same ancestor:
Didelphis albiventris? Then ok. But it's aninal now have such areal:


They share the same ancestor. Since the Amazonian marten opossum already reached the rainforest, then it already happened. It's perfect!

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I think he could periodically hunt on the earth or even sleep in the earth holes especially in dry seasons. Or even so: the younger persons living on the trees
and hunting in the night, the old and larger persons with big hunting expirience live on the earth, sleep in the earth holes and hunt in the morning or evening and like bigger prey. The persons of middle age part of the life spending on trees and part on earth.


Since they are nocturnal, there will not have competition with the mongoose that would hunt during the entire day.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I was thinking he would live only in Atlantic forest, because today Brotogeris tirica have a very small living areal
He need to expanse living space to neocene for eating ticks of amazonian tapirotherium.


I see, but they could still eat ticks of barocavias too.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
What do you think who could be the ansectors, and were we can settle them?

First may be only capibara or paca, somewhere in pampas.
The second can be tuco-tuco in wet Pampa or marshes, or may be in shrubs.
The third can be some meat eating Rattus norvegicus somewere in desert. Or may be somebody else? May be some monkey living in desert?


I think that the one that evolved from the capybara could be related to the barocavia, but living in dry areas. Since the Neocene already have barocavias, I don’t think that tuco-tucos in wetlands would be plausible, since this niche is already filled.
The "revived" Pampaphoneus could be a marsupial living in the desert of Atacama or the Andean plateau.
The monkey that we could "revive" is the Cartelles.

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 19:27. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I t..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I think that the one that evolved from the capybara could be related to the barocavia, but living in dry areas. Since the Neocene already have barocavias, I don’t think that tuco-tucos in wetlands would be plausible, since this niche is already filled.


I think the "Rhinoceros" can be relative to Megapaca deinodonta living in dry areas.
Author already was thinking about butting form of barocavia or paca:
https://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1685808150672-00000144-000-10001-0#014
https://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1685808150675-00000144-000-10001-0#015
https://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1685808150676-00000144-000-10001-0#017

And mixotoxodon can be descendant of Spalacopus cyanus in Chilean Mediterranean Coastal Semi-Desert Scrub & Grassland. I think barocavias and megapacas don't live there.

лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
Do you really want to revive Permian synapsids?


No I just want to have the animal with the similar form of body. That's all
JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The "revived" Pampaphoneus could be a marsupial living in the desert of Atacama or the Andean plateau.


Let it be marsupial!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The monkey that we could "revive" is the Cartelles.


It's good idea! Who can be the ancestor of pseudocartelles?

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лягушка
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 19:59. Заголовок: wovoka No I just wa..


wovoka

 цитата:
No I just want to have the animal with the similar form of body. That's all


Derived mammals have more efficient gait with limbs under the body, so they won't return to "reptilian" gait with splayed limbs (only if they shall need it and have no concurents).
So, "mammal-like reptile" bodyplan can't evolve again from derived mammals. Carnivorous opossum in the Neocene shall be moongoose-like, but not strange and reptilian!

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wovoka
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 23:38. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Deri..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
Derived mammals have more efficient gait with limbs under the body, so they won't return to "reptilian" gait with splayed limbs (only if they shall need it and have no concurents).
So, "mammal-like reptile" bodyplan can't evolve again from derived mammals. Carnivorous opossum in the Neocene shall be moongoose-like, but not strange and reptilian!


So let it be a reptilia: something like Heloderma suspectum with the scales like have Atheris hispida considering that we will not grow hair on a reptile.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 04.06.23 00:24. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: So le..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
So let it be a reptilia: something like Heloderma suspectum with the scales like have Atheris hispida considering that we will not grow hair on a reptile


I think that it wouldn't be possible because there is already many mammalian predators to fill the niche of the Pampaphoneus.

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 21:52. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Carn..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
Carnivorous opossum in the Neocene shall be moongoose-like, but not strange and reptilian!


In this case, I think that this animal should be more like a large Sparassodont like the Thylacosmilus or even the Australian marsupial lion. It would make more sense.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
It's good idea! Who can be the ancestor of pseudocartelles?


I think that a capuchin monkey would make more sense, since the howler monkeys would be more difficult in becoming terrestrial primates. The capuchin monkeys in the Cerrado and caatinga already visit the floor, usually to use tools to break nuts.

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лягушка
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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 16:49. Заголовок: JOrnitho "reviv..


JOrnitho

 цитата:
"revived" Pampaphoneus


Do you really want to revive Permian synapsids? I don't belive in it because:
1) Permian world was very different from Cenozoic and had other conditions for living beings.
2) Permian synapsids aka "mammal-like reptiles" were limited by their primitive anatomy. Mammals haven't this limits - they have limbs under the body, characterising skull and advanced form of viviparity. So, if they will fill niches of Permians, they should stay mammals. Reviving them won't be truly "reviving".

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JOrnitho



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ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 03.06.23 17:27. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: Do y..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
Do you really want to revive Permian synapsids? I don't belive in it because:


I'm aware of that. Any animal that evolve to have such characteristic would only fill their niches. For example, a marsupial or placental would be very, very superficially similar to a Pampaphoneus due to the niche that they are now filling. The correct rhing there is "replacement with a new model", rather than "reviving". Like how the Tapirotherium replaced the proboscids in South America.

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