On-line: гостей 1. Всего: 1 [подробнее..]
АвторСообщение
JOrnitho



Пост N: 69
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 25.03.22 17:24. Заголовок: Galliformes and other animals for South America (продолжение)


Hello! I'm back with ideas for some new species for South America. I found in my computer an archive with some ideas for fauna and flora that I had some time ago and decided to show there to ask your opinion about them. The first is about a descendant of the domestic chicken.

Скрытый текст


I also have in this archive some names for possible species that I never developed bayond some few facts. Maybe someone could help me make their descriptions.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
Ответов - 300 , стр: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 All [только новые]


JOrnitho



Пост N: 667
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 14:54. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: I'..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I'll try to finish the description of water rattlesnake tomorrow!


Ok!
I'm still in doubt about the serpent eaters. From a side, I think that a group of Dasyuridae-like opossums that are close relatives of the Neocene marten opossum would be interesting. However, the idea of the mongoose dispersing to South America and becoming specialized in hunting venomous and poisonous animals is also interesting.
What do you think that is more interesting and plausible?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4962
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 15:54. Заголовок: Both ideas are inter..


Both ideas are interesting!
But I'm supporter of evolution of aboriginal animals. That's why Dasyuridae-like opossums I like more.

But we can also try to divide South America between these to groups of animals: opossums and mongooses: by geography, by proportions, by way of life, by diet and so on.

For example we can give the Andes to the mongooses and pampas to opossums.

We can even may try to make a chapter about coexistence and competition in the same territory of mongooses and opposums.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 668
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 16:28. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: But w..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
But we can also try to divide South America between these to groups of animals: opossums and mongooses: by geography, by proportions, by way of life, by diet and so on.

For example we can give the Andes to the mongooses and pampas to opossums.

We can even may try to make a chapter about coexistence and competition in the same territory of mongooses and opposums.


I like these ideas! Mongooses are diurnal and opossums are mostly nocturnal. The mongoose could have remained in the Amazon and the Andes, while the opossums are present in the Atlantic forests, Cerrado and pampas. These two groups could overlap in the areas of transition between these biomes, but they would forage in different periods of time.
What do you think?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
лягушка
moderator




Пост N: 1159
Откуда: Таллапнуджир, всякие ЛЮБАВЫ,ХВОСТЕНЫ, и т.д.
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 17:11. Заголовок: JOrnitho I think it..


JOrnitho
I think it's not very good ideas, because moongooses are better adapted and more progressive. So, they'll jccupy most terrestrial niches and leave only trees and specialised nixhes to opossums. So, we can make many gliding ond arboreal opossums, bet not terrestrial or aqatic.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 669
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 17:49. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: I th..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
I think it's not very good ideas, because moongooses are better adapted and more progressive. So, they'll jccupy most terrestrial niches and leave only trees and specialised nixhes to opossums. So, we can make many gliding ond arboreal opossums, bet not terrestrial or aqatic.


Ok, so the mongoose are more plausible. Do you think that the populations introduced on Trinidad e Tobago could reach the continent? The island is close enough.
The marsupials would stay as mostly arboreal and nocturnal.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
лягушка
moderator




Пост N: 1160
Откуда: Таллапнуджир, всякие ЛЮБАВЫ,ХВОСТЕНЫ, и т.д.
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 19:09. Заголовок: JOrnitho Yes, I thi..


JOrnitho
Yes, I think they're close enough.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4963
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 19:18. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: beca..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
because moongooses are better adapted and more progressive


For example some opossums can eat more quick snakes that couldn't eat mongosses, opossums are less likely to get rabies.

But ok, we can make a lot of species of marsupial group of Dasyuridae-like opossums that are close relatives of the Neocene marten opossum, let they be mostly arboreal and nocturnal. But we can make a couple of species of nocturnal terresrial species with specified diet and one or two aquatic species (maybe water snake eating species) of opossums somewere in the South lakes of South America: in Fagnano Lake or in General Carrera Lake.

The other terestrial and aquatic nishes we can give to the mongooses. For example the niche of water rattlesnake eater in Maracaibo.




Or we can just keep mongooses out of South America. Explaining this by their extinction from rabies to Neocene in this region. And create a unique order of South American opossums, occupying a variety of niches. I would just like to make South America another biodiversity site for marsupials, just like Australia. And the adaptive radiation of mongooses can be dealt with somewhere in Southeast Asia. Some mountain mongoose-bear there would be very interesting.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
лягушка
moderator




Пост N: 1161
Откуда: Таллапнуджир, всякие ЛЮБАВЫ,ХВОСТЕНЫ, и т.д.
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 20:40. Заголовок: wovoka And create a..


wovoka

 цитата:
And create a unique order of South American opossums, occupying a variety of niches.


It's very good idea for world after next K/Pg-sized exctinction, but not for Neocene. I think in stable world placentals will be more successful than marsiupals.

 цитата:
Explaining this by their extinction from rabies


If it's explanation, why placentals are still alive?! They can be attacked by rabies!!! I'm against this explanition, it's author's arbitrariness! Аustralia uis already was unrealistic left for marsiupals, why you need to do it with South America?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 670
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 20:40. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Or we..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Or we can just keep mongooses out of South America. Explaining this by their extinction from rabies to Neocene in this region. And create a unique order of South American opossums, occupying a variety of niches. Mongooses in this regard are not so interesting; they have already demonstrated all their capabilities in Africa and South Asia. Although mongooses can evoluate mongooses in Central America, they were also introduced there in some places. Some mountain mongoose-bear in Central America would be interesting.


I agree with it, the idea of specialized opossums is more interesting. The mongooses of Trinidad could have died with sickness, leaving only the populations of the other Caribbean Islands. This way, they could only reach Central America. In South America, a sister-genus of the marten opossum had evolved with a Dasyuridae-like appearence and with taste for venomous and poisonous animals. A non related species could be the fully semiaquatic descendants of the Lutreolina in areas not colonized by otterodents.
With the mongoose in Central America, we could have that bear-like species and perhaps even some living in groups in the Mexican plateau, like suricates.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 671
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 05.04.23 20:49. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: If..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:

If it's explanation, why placentals are still alive?! They can be attacked by rabies!!! I'm against this explanition, it's author's arbitrariness! Аustralia uis already was unrealistic left for marsiupals, why you need to do it with South America?


We also need to take in consinderation that even after the arrival of the placentals in South America, the marsupials survived. This is why I proposed the diference in period of foraging between the mongooses and opossums, or even the case of the mongooses only having reached Northern South America, not having crossed the Amazon and Hippolyte Rivers yet. These two bodies of water could be biogeographic barriers.
There is also the case that the marten opossum is already a "canonical" species in the project, so the mongoose presence can't contradict it.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 673
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 06.04.23 15:39. Заголовок: wovoka What animals ..


wovoka
What animals we still need for the Maracaibo Gulf chapter? I can make the description of the semiaquatic opossum if we are going to add it.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4980
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 06.04.23 20:09. Заголовок: I am finishing the d..


I am finishing the description of asakaimo. When I finish, then it will be possible to describe a water opossum that eats snakes. Then I will finish writing two turtles.

And we haven't finished with the fishes. I still need to come up with names for the fishes.
Can you please make the last list of fishes species you have chosen?

And only then, it will be possible to work on the chapter.




About the confrontation between mongooses and opossums.

It would not be sad, but it is worth agreeing with Лягушка.

We can really come up with about 9 species of descendants of the Javanese mongoose from the Caribbean islands, for different regions of South America, mainly diurnal and terrestrial, occupying different econiches, we can make one water and one marsh species for the Amazon and one arboreal also for the Amazon, mount spesies for Andes, pampas species, desert species and so on.

But taking into account that the ecological radiation of oppossums started earlier, we can describe much more species of oppossums also for different regions of South America (perhaps not only Martenodelphidae). Some of them are diurnal arboreal with different econiches. Some of them are terrestrial, but nocturnal, also with different econiches, maybe we can come up with some interesting forms of lifestyle and diet. It would be cool to come up with a spiny opossum like Echymipera clara from New Guinea. And make three kinds of water possums. For Maracaibo gulf let there be a descendant of Didelphis marsupialis, which will become aquatic like Chironectes minimus and snakes-eating, and call him Parana-aware (sea opossum in carib), for the lakes of General Carerra we will create a species of aquatic snake-eating opossum from Lutreolina crassicaudata and for Lake Fagnano we will create a predatory a semi-aquatic opossum from Lestodelphys halli, feeding on all aquatic and semi-aquatic, but not very large living creatures.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4983
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 06.04.23 22:47. Заголовок: JOrnitho, I have fin..


JOrnitho, I have finished the description of Asakaimo http://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1680810271559-00000176-000-10001-0#050 - but in Russian

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 674
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 06.04.23 23:36. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Can y..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Can you please make the last list of fishes species you have chosen?


Abramites hypselonotus, Toxodes, Hydrolycus tatauaia, Ageneiosus magoi and Paracheirodon axelrodi. I'll work on their descroptions, using Лягушка' s sugestions.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
We can really come up with about 9 species of descendants of the Javanese mongoose from the Caribbean islands, for different regions of South America, mainly diurnal and terrestrial, occupying different econiches, we can make one water and one marsh species for the Amazon and one arboreal also for the Amazon, mount spesies for Andes, pampas species, desert species and so on.


Amazon is perfect for a marsh mongoose. While it isn’t going to be an otter, it could hunt in swamp areas. Perhaps a mammal specialized in crushing snails and shellfishes. Another idea is the mongooses living in Cerrado being analogues to merkats. It’s a good habitat for such animals. More conservative forms could live in the the rainforests.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
But taking into account that the ecological radiation of oppossums started earlier, we can describe much more species of oppossums also for different regions of South America (perhaps not only Martenodelphidae). Some of them are diurnal arboreal with different econiches. Some of them are terrestrial, but nocturnal, also with different econiches, maybe we can come up with some interesting forms of lifestyle and diet. It would be cool to come up with a spiny opossum like Echymipera clara from New Guinea. And make three kinds of water possums. For Maracaibo gulf let there be a descendant of Didelphis marsupialis, which will become aquatic like Chironectes minimus and snakes-eating, and call him Parana-aware (sea opossum in carib), for the lakes of General Carerra we will create a species of aquatic snake-eating opossum from Lutreolina crassicaudata and for Lake Fagnano we will create a predatory a semi-aquatic opossum from Lestodelphys halli, feeding on all aquatic and semi-aquatic, but not very large living creatures.


I like these ideas! The spiny opossum is very ineresting. It could be nocturnal and frugivorous.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
JOrnitho, I have finished the description of Asakaimo http://sivatherium.borda.ru/?1-0-1680810271559-00000176-000-10001-0#050 - but in Russian


It's a very good species! I like it!

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4986
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 06.04.23 23:55. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Abr..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Abramites hypselonotus, Toxodes, Hydrolycus tatauaia, Ageneiosus magoi and Paracheirodon axelrodi.


Ok, I'll look for good names for this fishes.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Perhaps a mammal specialized in crushing snails and shellfishes. Another idea is the mongooses living in Cerrado being analogues to merkats.


I like the ideas.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
It could be nocturnal and frugivorous.


Or fungivourus

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
It's a very good species! I like it!


Thank you!

We can take a map of neocene South America identify geographic zones and determine in which zone and which niches mongooses can occupy, and which niches opossums can occupy.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 675
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 07.04.23 01:46. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Or fu..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Or fungivourus


They could also be shrew-like.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
We can take a map of neocene South America identify geographic zones and determine in which zone and which niches mongooses can occupy, and which niches opossums can occupy.


Good idea! We can use the map of biomes that you posted here some time ago. The Cerrado and Gran Chaco are both possible places for the mongooses, they are similar to the savannas of Africa. Hence why I think that a meerkat-like species could live here.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4987
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 07.04.23 08:29. Заголовок: We can make the big..


We can make the biggest mongoose-bear for Andes, he will be hunting on deers from the ambush, and the biggest opposum for the same place it'll be the scavenger and will be a little smaller and will follow at a respectful distance from the mongoose-bear, eating up the half-eaten remains of the deer after it and cracking the bones. It will be analogue of the Australian Gravipossum ursinus. Let there be also a descendant of Didelphis marsupialis.

In some forrest we can settle arboreal monkey-eating mongoose.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
медведь





Пост N: 925
Откуда: Финляндия, Вантаа
Рейтинг: 1
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 07.04.23 10:00. Заголовок: We can make the bigg..



 цитата:
We can make the biggest mongoose-bear for Andes, he will be hunting on deers from the ambush, and the biggest opposum for the same place it'll be the scavenger and will be a little smaller and will follow at a respectful distance from the mongoose-bear, eating up the half-eaten remains of the deer after it and cracking the bones. It will be analogue of the Australian Gravipossum ursinus. Let there be also a descendant of Didelphis marsupialis.


And what about the greater grison?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4989
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 07.04.23 11:03. Заголовок: медведь пишет: And ..


медведь пишет:

 цитата:
And what about the greater grison?



We wanted to settle Sotaqui - bear like decsendent of lesser grison: hunting and gathering food along the banks of the rivers and lakes of Patagonia and in the wetlands around the rivers and lakes in the region of the General Carrera Lake it is Chilli and Argentina.

Bear like mongoose and eating carrion after him bear like opposum can live in northern Andes (Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Columbia).

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4988
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 07.04.23 10:53. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Abr..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Abramites hypselonotus, Toxodes, Hydrolycus tatauaia, Ageneiosus magoi and Paracheirodon axelrodi


I haven't look at the first time. None of these fishes you have chosen live in Lake Maracaibo and they are all freshwater.



 цитата:
Abramites hypselonotus


Rio Orinoco


 цитата:
Acaronia vultuosa


Rio Orinoco and Rio Negro


 цитата:
Hydrolycus tatauaia


Rio Amazon, Rio Orinoco and Rio Essequibo


 цитата:
Paracheirodon axelrodi


Rio Orinoco and Rio Negro

The only way for them to get into the Gulf of Maracaibo is to become a marine species and from the Orinoco Delta to get to the bay along the Caribbean coast.

May be better take a look on these Maracaibo lake fishes: Austrofundulus limnaeus, Rachovia pyropunctata, Austrofundulus leohoignei, Caquetaia kraussii, Chaetostoma sovichthys, Ctenolucius hujeta? Geophagus steindachneri, Gilbertolus maracaiboensis, Hemiancistrus maracaiboensis.

And these salt water fishes living near gulf Maracaibo: Acanthemblemaria spinosa, Bollmannia boqueronensis, Elacatinus chancei, Mullus auratus.

What we can do with them?

And the fishes you are describing now, can live in delta of Orinoco. Delta of Orinoco river it's also good place for one of the future chapters

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
Ответов - 300 , стр: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 All [только новые]
Тему читают:
- участник сейчас на форуме
- участник вне форума
Все даты в формате GMT  3 час. Хитов сегодня: 190
Права: смайлы да, картинки да, шрифты да, голосования нет
аватары да, автозамена ссылок вкл, премодерация откл, правка нет