On-line: Мех, гостей 0. Всего: 1 [подробнее..]
АвторСообщение
JOrnitho



Пост N: 69
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 25.03.22 17:24. Заголовок: Galliformes and other animals for South America (продолжение)


Hello! I'm back with ideas for some new species for South America. I found in my computer an archive with some ideas for fauna and flora that I had some time ago and decided to show there to ask your opinion about them. The first is about a descendant of the domestic chicken.

Скрытый текст


I also have in this archive some names for possible species that I never developed bayond some few facts. Maybe someone could help me make their descriptions.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
Ответов - 300 , стр: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 All [только новые]


wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4793
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 11:49. Заголовок: медведь пишет: A go..


медведь пишет:

 цитата:
A good idea! I will describe it when I will have more time.


Ok, thank you!

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 585
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 14:58. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: But I..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
But I want to have in chapter also descendent of lycalopex griseus. That's why I proposed:
"To make it an analogue of omnivorous and maybe twilight Chrysocyon brachyurus (but just more massive) and with color of Cross fox? It will be fast enough to hunt these cursorial roddents, but also could eat other small and medium animals: mammals, birds (their eggs), reptilians, amphibians and even invertebrates and also fruits, berries, some edible plants, mushrooms" I think so we can share ecologically this new animal and uecubu.


Yes, the difference in niches between the two animals would allow them to live together. The descendant of the Lycalopex griseus could very well be the new Chrysocyon brachyurus, perhaps even living in the savannas. What do you think of it having dense fur around the neck? Like a collie dog, but shorter.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
As you wish! But why you decided to replace the sungrebe?


I thought that would be interesting to have a species that was once from cold regions and migrated to the region to flee the Ice Age. We can still find a way to use the sungrebe. Any ideas? Could it be restricted to the delta, while the loon lives in brackish and coastal areas?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
медведь





Пост N: 849
Откуда: Финляндия, Вантаа
Рейтинг: 1
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 20:28. Заголовок: But loons did not mo..


But loons did not move to South America during the last ice age. And they are pretty cold-tolerant.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 586
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 20:54. Заголовок: медведь пишет: But ..


медведь пишет:

 цитата:
But loons did not move to South America during the last ice age. And they are pretty cold-tolerant


I thought that becuaase the Gavia inner migrates to Florida, so I thought that some individuals could have reaced South America. However, if it's implausible, we can have the sungrebe in this place. What do you think of a large sungrebe adapted to living in brackish water and coastal areas? The folds of skin that they have under their wings in which they carry their young from hatching until the chicks are able to swim also makes them more interesting than loons.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4796
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 20:55. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Wha..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
What do you think of it having dense fur around the neck? Like a collie dog.


It will be interesting detail of the appearance of the animal!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I thought that would be interesting to have a species that was once from cold regions and migrated to the region to flee the Ice Age.


Yes, I agree it's a good proposition!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Could it be restricted to the delta, while the loon lives in brackish and coastal areas?


Yes of course!
Also the may have different diet.

медведь пишет:

 цитата:
But loons did not move to South America during the last ice age. And they are pretty cold-tolerant.


JOrnitho is talking about the descendent of Gavia immer, and I'm not sure in there absolute cold-tolerance if they can wintering in South California or Florida.
Maybe representatives of the most southern populations during the ice age flew for wintering not to Florida, but to Lake Maracaibo, and some of them remained to live on the lake, that rich in all kinds of tasty living creatures. There they formed a new population, which evolved in Neocene, forming a new species - Wakola. Is it impossible?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
медведь





Пост N: 851
Откуда: Финляндия, Вантаа
Рейтинг: 1
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 21:46. Заголовок: However, if it's..



 цитата:
However, if it's implausible, we can have the sungrebe in this place. What do you think of a large sungrebe adapted to living in brackish water and coastal areas?


Wikipedia says that sungrebes have problems with dispersing over saltwater, so they may not like coasts so much. But it is interesting, so if you have a solution to this problem, then why not?

 цитата:
Maybe representatives of the most southern populations during the ice age flew for wintering not to Florida, but to Lake Maracaibo, and some of them remained to live on the lake, that rich in all kinds of tasty living creatures. There they formed a new population, which evolved in Neocene, forming a new species - Wakola. Is it impossible?


Loons usually make their nest no farther than 0,5 m from the water`s edge, so they cannot nest on the shores of a waterbody with water level changing much due to tides. The laughterloon can crawl a bit better on land because of its strong wings, but the traditional loons cannot.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4799
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 18.03.23 23:11. Заголовок: медведь Yes, these ..


медведь
Yes, these are serious remarks and should be considered.

In Maracaibo region also live Cebus albifrons and Procyon cancrivorus.
We can make them more aquatic:
Capuchin monkeys make like Nasalis larvatus or Macaca fuscata or at least like Allenopithecus nigroviridis.

And raccoon could occupy an interesting niche that no one had previously occupied: big water bear - a beast the size of a hippopotamus, but not herbivorous but predatory, eating any life creature which can catch. Or it can be like ambulocetus: large ambush aquatic predator. But for that we should annihilate in the lake region Caiman crocodilus.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 587
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 02:23. Заголовок: медведь I'll nee..


медведь
I'll need to think about the sungrebe. Perhaps they developed a large gland capable of removing salt from their food? This species could have a knob to house said gland.
Regarding the loons, I thought that they could nest at the delta or inside Catatumbo River. They could use the strategy of making floating nests connected to the vegetation of the shore.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Capuchin monkeys make like Nasalis larvatus or Macaca fuscata or at least like Allenopithecus nigroviridis.


I like it! They could swim to take shellfish and use rocks to break it.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
And raccoon could occupy an interesting niche that no one had previously occupied: big water bear - a beast the size of a hippopotamus, but not herbivorous but predatory, eating any life creature which can catch. Or it can be like ambulocetus: large ambush aquatic predator. But for that we should annihilate in the lake region Caiman crocodilus.


Aren't some large caimans and crocodiles extinct in the Neocene? Perhaps the species of Maracaibo were among the unfortunate ones that disappeared. Since it would be a ambush predator, what if it became an analogue to the Ambulocetus? If this idea is too crazy, we can have a giant caiman living in the region.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4801
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 10:16. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: I&#..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I'll need to think about the sungrebe. Perhaps they developed a large gland capable of removing salt from their food? This species could have a knob to house said gland.
Regarding the loons, I thought that they could nest at the delta or inside Catatumbo River. They could use the strategy of making floating nests connected to the vegetation of the shore.


I like the ideas, but let's listen to the arguments of Медведь, he is real specialist in birds.

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
I like it! They could swim to take shellfish and use rocks to break it.


Will we make them big noses like have diving Nasalis larvatus?

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Since it would be a ambush predator, what if it became an analogue to the Ambulocetus? If this idea is too crazy, we can have a giant caiman living in the region.


I prefer Ambulocetus.

In portrait of Earth written:

 цитата:
Ground-dwelling caimans, the representatives of declining order of crocodiles, are analogues of monitor lizards and inhabit pampas and light forests.


So according to canon, there is no any crocodiles or caimans in Maracaibo region.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
медведь





Пост N: 855
Откуда: Финляндия, Вантаа
Рейтинг: 1
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 11:23. Заголовок: Regarding the loons,..



 цитата:
Regarding the loons, I thought that they could nest at the delta or inside Catatumbo River. They could use the strategy of making floating nests connected to the vegetation of the shore


Most loons are too heavy to build floating nests. However, the largest species of grebe, the great grebe (Podiceps major) weighs 1,6 to 2 kg and overlaps in weight with the smallest loon species, the red-throated loon (Gavia stellata), which weighs 1-2,7 kg. But you want to use the common loon (Gavia immer) in which even the smallest individuals weigh about 2,2 kg, the average weight being about 4,5 kg for females and about 5,5 kg in males. It must become sufficiently lighter, otherwise floating nests are out of question.
Meanwhile, how high tides are there in the said place?

 цитата:
In Maracaibo region also live Cebus albifrons and Procyon cancrivorus.
We can make them more aquatic:
Capuchin monkeys make like Nasalis larvatus or Macaca fuscata or at least like Allenopithecus nigroviridis.


As far as I know most or all New World monkeys cannot really swim.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 588
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 12:47. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Will ..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Will we make them big noses like have diving Nasalis larvatus?


I don’t think that it would be necessary. They could remain like a Cebus, but with a different lifestyle. Would they be larger than their ancestors or the have the same size?

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
I prefer Ambulocetus.


Same. This species would be more interesting for the chapter, rather than having a common caiman.

медведь пишет:

 цитата:
It must become sufficiently lighter, otherwise floating nests are out of question.


Do you think that would possible for them to become smaller? The isolation from their ancestors and possible the effect of Bergman' rule (organisms in higher latitudes should be larger than those in lower ones).
If it isn’t possible, maybe we can still have a grebe. Is there any species living in the region of Lake Maracaibo?

медведь пишет:

 цитата:
Meanwhile, how high tides are there in the said place?


In the present, the highest tide is of 0.6m.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4805
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 17:30. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: If ..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
If it isn’t possible, maybe we can still have a grebe. Is there any species living in the region of Lake Maracaibo?


Tachybaptus dominicus and Podilymbus podiceps

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Would they be larger than their ancestors or the have the same size?


Before answer this question we should decide what will be the style of their life and what will be there diet.

медведь пишет:

 цитата:
As far as I know most or all New World monkeys cannot really swim.


According to this article https://bioone.org/journals/neotropical-primates/volume-21/issue-2/044.021.0210/Report-of-a-Black-Spider-Monkey-iAteles-chamek-i-Swimming/10.1896/044.021.0210.full
There are three american monkeys that can swim Alouatta palliata (the closest to Maracaibo, but vulnerable), Cacajao melanocephulus (also live in Venezuela but in the south regions, maybe it can migrate to Maracaibo), Ateles chamek (too far from Maracaibo).
Also there written
 цитата:
Some platyrrhines, such as Cebus, Cacajao, Aotus, and Saimiri, can inhabit or use swamps and seasonally flooded areas, but they do not swim between habitat patches

.
I think Cebus albifrons may first of all become swamp monkeys and then gradually, million years after a million, slowly learn to swim.


JOrnitho
I also thinking about the bestiary of salt lake Mar Chiquita (especially I like that this lake has an island El Mistolar).
We have already decided to settle there jaguar like descendant of Geoffroy's cat - Tapiraiaura.
And I think that there can be aquatic descendant of maikong analogue of Arctocephalus galapagoensis. Then it we call charaba - cacique in the languge sanavirona.

The mammals are living there (except two species that we have already chosen):
1. Coypu - we can make protoalgocetus - transitional from Coypu to algocetus.
2. Holochilus brasiliensis - we can make something more aquatic with this animal
3. Tuco-tuco - we can do something with it.
4. Lycalopex gymnocercus
5. Puma - is already evolve in neocene to Felinoraptor
6. Jaguarundi
7. Leopardus pajeros
8. Procyon cancrivorus
9. Noctilio leporinus - fish eating bat. It is interesting to evolve this animal.

I have no ideas about the evolution of non highlighted in color mammals.

Lontra longicaudis, Tamandua tetradactyla, Myrmecophaga tridactyla, Chrysocyon brachyurus - extinct in Neocene

Here the book about this lake and we can chose fishes, amphibians, reptiles, birds and invertebrates for the chapter
https://cloudflare-ipfs.com/ipfs/bafykbzacec5vnrirrrxnuvg4xjnhwlmvovdkxbrjxq3z3djtp2zxjhoiwrrbu?filename=Enrique%20H.%20Bucher%20-%20The%20Mar%20Chiquita%20Salt%20Lake%20%28C%C3%B3rdoba%2C%20Argentina%29_%20Ecology%20and%20Conservation%20of%20the%20Largest%20Salt%20Lake%20in%20South%20America-Springer%20International%20Publishing%20%282019%29.pdf

I like Salvator merianae - may be we can make a caiman like form?
And I like Bothrops alternatus - water viper snake.


The Phoenicoparrus of the lake are Vulnerable They sure will extinct to neocene. May be some bird of the lake can replace them? May be Cygnus melacoryphus?
There are a lot of Egretta thula there, how can it evolve?

Study the book, please, choose who you want for the chapter...

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 589
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 20:05. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: Tachy..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Tachybaptus dominicus and Podilymbus podiceps


Both are interesting, which one do you thing that could be the ancestor of a species adapted to brackish water?

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
The mammals are living there (except two species that we have already chosen):
1. Coypu - we can make protoalgocetus - transitional from Coypu to algocetus.
2. Holochilus brasiliensis - we can make something more aquatic with this animal
3. Tuco-tuco - we can do something with it.
4. Lycalopex gymnocercus
5. Puma - is already evolve in neocene to Felinoraptor
6. Jaguarundi
7. Leopardus pajeros
8. Procyon cancrivorus
9. Noctilio leporinus - fish eating bat. It is interesting to evolve this animal.


The coypu can be like a Prorastomus, with functional legs. Holochilus could be an otter like rodent, unless there is already something similar in the region. Lycalopex gymnocercus could have remained with its niche, perhaps acting like a jackal. The tuco-tuco could evolve to become large like a marmot. I'll need to think about the rest.
What do you think of a vulture adapted to live in the cold areas of Patagonia and around this lake? It could be a descendant of the Cathartes aura.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
The Phoenicoparrus of the lake are Vulnerable They sure will extinct to neocene


Maybe they are replaced by Phoenicopterus? This species is Near Threatened, so they have a better chance of surviving. With the extinction of Phoenicoparrus, these flamings could take the niche left by the other species.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
Study the book, please, choose who you want for the chapter...


I'll read it.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
медведь





Пост N: 860
Откуда: Финляндия, Вантаа
Рейтинг: 1
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 20:43. Заголовок: Do you think that wo..



 цитата:
Do you think that would possible for them to become smaller? The isolation from their ancestors and possible the effect of Bergman' rule (organisms in higher latitudes should be larger than those in lower ones)


In the winter, common loons usually move southwards just far enough to reach non-frozen waterbodies. And I doubt that lakes of Florida would freeze even during the ice age. They also have high breeding site fidelity.

 цитата:
which one do you thing that could be the ancestor of a species adapted to brackish water?


I think the latter. Even nowadays it is occasionally found in salt water.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4810
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 19.03.23 22:29. Заголовок: JOrnitho пишет: Bot..


JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Both are interesting, which one do you thing that could be the ancestor of a species adapted to brackish water?


I don't good specialist in birds. May be Медведь will help us again?

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The coypu can be like a Prorastomus, with functional legs.


Wow, it's a very cool idea!

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Holochilus could be an otter like rodent


There is a mistake in the book. The English name of the rodent Chacoan marsh rat - it's Holochilus chacarius, but the latin name in the book Holochilus brasiliensis. It is absolutely different animal. I think it's really Holochilus chacarius live in the lake. This animal is herbivorous and couldn't be like otter. So he more likely would be like coypus or muskrat. But to be honest it is a little bit boring. May be we can design some other niche for it?

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Lycalopex gymnocercus could have remained with its niche, perhaps acting like a jackal.


May be it be acting like Cuon alpinus (and form of the body will be similar) and with color like Lycaon pictus?

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
The tuco-tuco could evolve to become large like a marmot.


I think it would be before evolving swimming tuco-tuco as Ctenomys lewisi or Ctenomys fulvus https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Zeitschrift-Saeugetierkunde_53_0011-0021.pdf and can became social like Ctenomys sociabilis, and so it evolve into "social semiaquatic marmot"

JOrnitho пишет:

 цитата:
Maybe they are replaced by Phoenicopterus?


Yes, Phoenicopterus ruber can replace them.

But if it extinct too, then according to the last genetic research the closest genetic relatives of flamingos are grebes:

There are five species of grebes in Mar Chiquita:
Podilymbus podiceps Pied-billed grebe
Tachybaptus dominicus Least grebe
Rollandia Rolland White-tufted grebe
Podiceps major Great grebe
Podiceps occipitalis Southern Silvery grebe
They all have good chance to survive!

May be Phoenicopterus ruber will not extinct, but don't reach the lake and we can take one of the grebes to make flamingo-like grebes

grebingo

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 590
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 20.03.23 02:56. Заголовок: медведь пишет: I th..


медведь пишет:

 цитата:
I think the latter. Even nowadays it is occasionally found in salt water.


Then it'll be Podilymbus podiceps.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
There is a mistake in the book. The English name of the rodent Chacoan marsh rat - it's Holochilus chacarius, but the latin name in the book Holochilus brasiliensis. It is absolutely different animal. I think it's really Holochilus chacarius live in the lake. This animal is herbivorous and couldn't be like otter. So he more likely would be like coypus or muskrat. But to be honest it is a little bit boring. May be we can design some other niche for it?


Probably the population here was reclassified. Since the local coypu is going to be a basal form of algocetus, the Holochilus could replace them as the local large water rat. Or it could remain with the same niche, but with the webbing in the feet more developed. A diving rat that search for algae and plants underwater. Perhaps a local plant could offer a food source that makes diving necessary.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
May be it be acting like Cuon alpinus (and form of the body will be similar) and with color like Lycaon pictus?


I think that it would need to be smaller and not like the dhole, the uktenas already live here. However, in sone parts of Asia Cuon alpinus and wolves share habitats. Do you know how their interactions and niche avoidance happens? It could be similar in Patagonia. The color is a good idea.

wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
May be Phoenicopterus ruber will not extinct, but don't reach the lake and we can take one of the grebes to make flamingo-like grebes
grebingo


I like the name , but would the grebes be able to evolve to fill the niche of flamingos? They have very different adaptations. Would it be a grebe that becomes pink by feeding of local crustaceans or is it capable of filtering the water to take food from it?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 591
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 20.03.23 16:36. Заголовок: wovoka пишет: May b..


wovoka пишет:

 цитата:
May be we can design some other niche for it?


I had a new idea. What if the Holochilus becomes like a beaver,? We could think in a way that they could build something that could change the environment that they live, like the dams of beavers.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
лягушка
moderator




Пост N: 1101
Откуда: Таллапнуджир, всякие ЛЮБАВЫ,ХВОСТЕНЫ, и т.д.
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 20.03.23 17:04. Заголовок: JOrnitho What if th..


JOrnitho

 цитата:
What if the Holochilus


No, I think that coypu will be better ancestor of "false beaver".

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
JOrnitho



Пост N: 593
Рейтинг: 2
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 21.03.23 02:31. Заголовок: лягушка пишет: No, ..


лягушка пишет:

 цитата:
No, I think that coypu will be better ancestor of "false beaver".


What do you think of the coypu being the "false beaver" and building huts, while the Holochilus becomes some sort of a "renter"? It would live inside the coypu's huits, but we can give it some more interesting characteristics.

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
wovoka
moderator




Пост N: 4822
Откуда: Республика Лакота
Рейтинг: 8
ссылка на сообщение  Отправлено: 20.03.23 17:25. Заголовок: JOrnitho, I'm so..


JOrnitho, I'm sorry, I'll be busy these days. I'll ask you in Wednesday evening. Ok?

Спасибо: 0 
Профиль
Ответов - 300 , стр: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 All [только новые]
Тему читают:
- участник сейчас на форуме
- участник вне форума
Все даты в формате GMT  3 час. Хитов сегодня: 192
Права: смайлы да, картинки да, шрифты да, голосования нет
аватары да, автозамена ссылок вкл, премодерация откл, правка нет